Jan Peter Introduction
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
Sous-vide is the only way to go...
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
I would partly agree but there is the small chance that all the bacteria is not killedSusanJ wrote:Sous-vide is the only way to go...
welcome here...
there is even more information and I say better on an older forum than here which was started by members of Dr Davis trackyourplaque and a few here joined.
www.heartlifetalk.com
try HDLabs for tests and get a Calcium Score just to be sure your pipes are clear.
a lot of oxidation occurs internally as we digest food and since we retain ldl longer it can oxidize in the wrong place.
NAC 2x daily
for inflammation get the omega3 index test ratio of omega6:omega3 is important
get your vitamin C level tested above 40 is essential
check your rbcMg level
you can get your vitamin and stool bacteria levels tests and your requirement for B's Genova diagnostics.
all that is one the site I recommended.
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
I'm posting my newest disastrous NMR results here so you all can follow the history. Needless to say with a LDL-P count of 3071 and small LDL of 1510 my strict ketogenic diet is an absolute failure. What is weird is that when I donated blood 2 months ago my total cholesterol was a decent 205. I don't know what I did to raise it to 248 ? My diet was exactly the same through out. The only thing I changed was adding resistant starch with probiotics. I thought that was supposed to lower cholesterol ? ? I will need to change course and perhaps do what Sandraz did and follow a Mediterranian keto diet cutting saturated fat and red meats in favor of lots of EVOO and lean proteins. And what's with the high Trigs and low HDL ? At least my inflammatory markers are super low as is my hGB A1C. I'm thinking of getting an EBT calcium scan to make sure I'm not at any real cardio risk. Any thoughts? I've never been leaner ( 11%. body fat) nor felt better. 
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
APO E3/4
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
Janpeter -
What Ive discovered with my own lipid results is that food changes did very little to my LDL-P counts. Even when I was drastically able to cut my LDL-C number, it barely moved my LDL-P. It just goes to show that no matter what studies say, the only study that works is self-experimentation. Those numbers are very surprising for a ketogenic diet.
Im getting another NMR done here hopefully this week after being off medication and supplements (not expecting good news there) but in MY case the only thing that worked to move my LDL-P, was taking Zetia.
You are not alone and Ive read many stories of folks who are doing everything right, ketogenic diet etc.. and their counts are way high.
What Ive discovered with my own lipid results is that food changes did very little to my LDL-P counts. Even when I was drastically able to cut my LDL-C number, it barely moved my LDL-P. It just goes to show that no matter what studies say, the only study that works is self-experimentation. Those numbers are very surprising for a ketogenic diet.
Im getting another NMR done here hopefully this week after being off medication and supplements (not expecting good news there) but in MY case the only thing that worked to move my LDL-P, was taking Zetia.
You are not alone and Ive read many stories of folks who are doing everything right, ketogenic diet etc.. and their counts are way high.
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
Hi Jan,
I wonder if what changed was adding the resistant starch? My understanding is sugars (starch) are turned into triglycerides which are packaged in the VLDLs. I read somewhere that VLDLS are not cleared as quickly in APOE4's but they then eventually lose some of the triglycerides and are now LDL's which hang around even longer in APOE4's. So it seems possible that adding starch raised your LDLp. someone else here posted they had big rise in LDLp when adding resistant starch.
I have had my LDLc drop by adding lots of EVOO, but my LDLc is still 150 (down from over 200).This is a big big if, but if my LDLc drop is proportional to LDLp drop then my LDLp will have dropped from 2500 to 1600. I don't get it measured till end of July. So I am still trying to figure out how to get it lower. I don't know if you saw post a couple of days ago, but I have a machine at home I can test my TC, trigs, HDL, & calculated LDLc. That way I have a clue if I am going in right direction, or not.
So I was skeptical that EVOO would drop LDL. Then I found article that explained how MUFA causes the body to increase the number of LDL receptors, so LDL drops. And that SF causes the body to decrease the number of LDL receptors, so in APOE4s, SF will really cause LDL to jump. I am following Julie's lead here because I had to start somewhere. I really do not like the taste of olive oil!! But I am learning to. I cannot go low fat bc then my blood sugars go into diabetic range. So I have to figure it out this way, with a HFLC diet. But it is such a fine line. And I am sure, differs from person to person.
Here are 2 studies that talk about lowering LDL with MUFA or raising LDL with SF
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/1/47.abstract
http://www.jlr.org/content/38/3/459.full.pdf
Hope this is helpful.
Sandra z
I wonder if what changed was adding the resistant starch? My understanding is sugars (starch) are turned into triglycerides which are packaged in the VLDLs. I read somewhere that VLDLS are not cleared as quickly in APOE4's but they then eventually lose some of the triglycerides and are now LDL's which hang around even longer in APOE4's. So it seems possible that adding starch raised your LDLp. someone else here posted they had big rise in LDLp when adding resistant starch.
I have had my LDLc drop by adding lots of EVOO, but my LDLc is still 150 (down from over 200).This is a big big if, but if my LDLc drop is proportional to LDLp drop then my LDLp will have dropped from 2500 to 1600. I don't get it measured till end of July. So I am still trying to figure out how to get it lower. I don't know if you saw post a couple of days ago, but I have a machine at home I can test my TC, trigs, HDL, & calculated LDLc. That way I have a clue if I am going in right direction, or not.
So I was skeptical that EVOO would drop LDL. Then I found article that explained how MUFA causes the body to increase the number of LDL receptors, so LDL drops. And that SF causes the body to decrease the number of LDL receptors, so in APOE4s, SF will really cause LDL to jump. I am following Julie's lead here because I had to start somewhere. I really do not like the taste of olive oil!!
But I am learning to. I cannot go low fat bc then my blood sugars go into diabetic range. So I have to figure it out this way, with a HFLC diet. But it is such a fine line. And I am sure, differs from person to person.Here are 2 studies that talk about lowering LDL with MUFA or raising LDL with SF
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/1/47.abstract
http://www.jlr.org/content/38/3/459.full.pdf
Hope this is helpful.
Sandra z
Sandra Z
E4,E4
E4,E4
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
Jan Peter, I'm sorry your results weren't quite what you were expecting First, I want to congratulate you for the excellent A1c and fasting glucose- pristine. It makes the rest harder to understand, but I have a few ideas...
I read back through your whole thread and don't see another NMR result. Is this your first? Also, when did you start adding RS? I ask because another member, Giftsplash, wrote about his RS experiment that resulted in his highest LDL-P ever. My guess, is that a similar unknown mechanism may be at play. Here's a link to Giftsplash's experiment:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=440&p=3495&hilit=Re ... 0%A6#p3495
Did you include the RS in your 20% carb intake? Did you concurrently increase carb intake as is encouraged in RS world? I ask as failure to count the RS and/or increasing carbs MAY also account for your worsened TGs and relatively high LPIR...given your low glucose. IF the RS is what boosted your LDL-P...you still don't have a baseline on your ketogenic diet- sigh.
I can't quite read your homocysteine. Is it 9.3? That's a little high, my friend. My neurologist recommended I try to keep mine below 7. That may be another goal to work towards
Have you ever examined your methylation by running your raw data through Genetic Genie? http://geneticgenie.org/ That might give you a good starting place. Also, coffee drinking (even though it's very beneficial for us) can promote higher homocysteine.
FWIW, I moved from higher SFA to more MUFA (staying ketogenic) and have gotten good lipid/inflammation/glucose results...so far. I was also VERY heartened by this recent paper indicating that a Mediterranean Diet, high in EVOO & nuts, improved cognition in E4 carriers. To my knowledge, this is the FIRST study showing improvement in E4 humans with diet. Needless to say, I heartily approve of the dietary direction you are moving towards.
Genotype patterns at CLU, CR1, PICALM and APOE, cognition and Mediterranean diet: the PREDIMED-NAVARRA
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24643340
You ask about an EBT scan...the high level of radiation scares me there. I'm going to do a carotid ultrasound instead to check for plaque just to be on the safe side. IF, anything untoward is found, I'll be first in line to get my CAC score
Thanks so much for sharing, Jan Peter. We learn so much from each other by observing these n=1 experiments. I suspect your numbers will be back to your excellent baseline in no time.
First, I want to congratulate you for the excellent A1c and fasting glucose- pristine. It makes the rest harder to understand, but I have a few ideas...I read back through your whole thread and don't see another NMR result. Is this your first? Also, when did you start adding RS? I ask because another member, Giftsplash, wrote about his RS experiment that resulted in his highest LDL-P ever. My guess, is that a similar unknown mechanism may be at play. Here's a link to Giftsplash's experiment:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=440&p=3495&hilit=Re ... 0%A6#p3495
Did you include the RS in your 20% carb intake? Did you concurrently increase carb intake as is encouraged in RS world? I ask as failure to count the RS and/or increasing carbs MAY also account for your worsened TGs and relatively high LPIR...given your low glucose. IF the RS is what boosted your LDL-P...you still don't have a baseline on your ketogenic diet- sigh.
I can't quite read your homocysteine. Is it 9.3? That's a little high, my friend. My neurologist recommended I try to keep mine below 7. That may be another goal to work towards
Have you ever examined your methylation by running your raw data through Genetic Genie? http://geneticgenie.org/ That might give you a good starting place. Also, coffee drinking (even though it's very beneficial for us) can promote higher homocysteine. FWIW, I moved from higher SFA to more MUFA (staying ketogenic) and have gotten good lipid/inflammation/glucose results...so far. I was also VERY heartened by this recent paper indicating that a Mediterranean Diet, high in EVOO & nuts, improved cognition in E4 carriers. To my knowledge, this is the FIRST study showing improvement in E4 humans with diet. Needless to say, I heartily approve of the dietary direction you are moving towards.
Genotype patterns at CLU, CR1, PICALM and APOE, cognition and Mediterranean diet: the PREDIMED-NAVARRA
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24643340
You ask about an EBT scan...the high level of radiation scares me there. I'm going to do a carotid ultrasound instead to check for plaque just to be on the safe side. IF, anything untoward is found, I'll be first in line to get my CAC score
Thanks so much for sharing, Jan Peter. We learn so much from each other by observing these n=1 experiments. I suspect your numbers will be back to your excellent baseline in no time.
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
Last year I had a carotid ultrasound as opposed to the calcium heart scan. Like Julie, I was concerned about the radiation dose and an equivocal number pushing me towards a statin. Plus my insurance would not cover the CT scan unlike the ultrasound. Unfortunately, I can't find the study that evaluated the updated carotid ultrasounds as being highly sensitive for detecting athersclerosis with the carotid intima measurements.
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
...Maybe not highly sensitive, but how about this from the MESA study, Kit?
Coronary artery calcium is associated with degree of stenosis and surface irregularity of carotid artery.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22658554
How did your test turn out
Coronary artery calcium is associated with degree of stenosis and surface irregularity of carotid artery.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22658554
How did your test turn out
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
Julie, the carotids were "widely patent" with the thickness of the intima 0.6 and 0.7, with 0.8 associated with increased risks coronary artery disease. Of course, I would have preferred 0.5, but at age 61, this is a completely normal test. My cholesterol was 195 , higher than usual due to the increase of HDL to 93 or possibly family stress at the time.
I'm having a repeat cholesterol A1c this month, after a stricter adherence to the Mediterranean Diet. Uncertain if the oxidized LDLp is even available at our lab.
I'm having a repeat cholesterol A1c this month, after a stricter adherence to the Mediterranean Diet. Uncertain if the oxidized LDLp is even available at our lab.
Re: Jan Peter Introduction
Thanks for all the replies guys. Nice to have a place to go and vent my frustrations with people who understand. 
I totally missed the post by Giftsplash. That is really bizarre that we both responded to RS so poorly. I wonder if the SFA's produced by the gut bacteria influence on's lipids ? I also lost several pounds without dieting. I wonder if that fat loss may have contributed ? I understood that RS doesn't raise glucose which I confirmed by testing 30 min and 1 HR the first time I used it. Anyways so much for RS ! Not sure I noticed anything other than the 3 Lb weight loss. Maybe slightly better bowel movements as we'll.
Skibike --I'm a little discouraged that you never saw your LDL-P move with dietary intervention. If all else fails I will consider Zetia. I'm not there yet. But thanks for the info !
Sandra -- I'm really hopeful that cutting out most saturated fat and replacing it with EVOO and avocado etc. I should also see some movements. Interesting about the LDL receptors being influenced by different fats. Like you I also respond poorly to high glycemic carbs so some sort of Low Carb diet is essential. I'll be curious to see your next test results.
Julie-- As always you are a gold mine of valuable information. I think all will agree you are the heart and soul of this forum. I did not include the RS as part of my carb count as I believed it to be neutral. I am a sucker for self -experimentation and in this case I didn't do my homework. I think cutting back on SF and replacing with MUFA and limiting red meat to 2 servings a week will be my main approach. I will also quit coconut oil during this next test phase. I'm thinking of doing 3 TBS of ground flaxseed and Amla powder each day. But perhaps this will skew the dietary aspect of my diet experiment like the RS may have done ?
You are right about my homocysteine being a little high and I love my coffee
I just submitted my 23&me kit two weeks ago so my methylation predisposition will be clearer. Susan amongst others in this forum has really piqued my interest in this. This could be another leg of the stool with inflammation, glycation, and oxidation. You're right about the radiation in the EBT...I'll hold off for now. With my very low sensitive CRP number I'm somewhat assured that there is no real damage going on yet. HDL labs out of Virginia does probably the most extensive test out there. It test something called Myeloperoxidase (MPO) which is a marker for inflammation and oxidative processes specific to the arterial wall and reflects oxidized LDL formation. I'm attaching the results of a friend (APO E 3/3) to highlight all that this test covers. I believe it runs close to $300.00. This was done in 2012 and I think they have added a few more goodies. Thanks again to all the mutual encouragement. I firmly believe we will get to a protocol that covers the key facets of mitigating the adverse affects of our Allelle.
I totally missed the post by Giftsplash. That is really bizarre that we both responded to RS so poorly. I wonder if the SFA's produced by the gut bacteria influence on's lipids ? I also lost several pounds without dieting. I wonder if that fat loss may have contributed ? I understood that RS doesn't raise glucose which I confirmed by testing 30 min and 1 HR the first time I used it. Anyways so much for RS ! Not sure I noticed anything other than the 3 Lb weight loss. Maybe slightly better bowel movements as we'll.
Skibike --I'm a little discouraged that you never saw your LDL-P move with dietary intervention. If all else fails I will consider Zetia. I'm not there yet. But thanks for the info !
Sandra -- I'm really hopeful that cutting out most saturated fat and replacing it with EVOO and avocado etc. I should also see some movements. Interesting about the LDL receptors being influenced by different fats. Like you I also respond poorly to high glycemic carbs so some sort of Low Carb diet is essential. I'll be curious to see your next test results.
Julie-- As always you are a gold mine of valuable information. I think all will agree you are the heart and soul of this forum. I did not include the RS as part of my carb count as I believed it to be neutral. I am a sucker for self -experimentation and in this case I didn't do my homework. I think cutting back on SF and replacing with MUFA and limiting red meat to 2 servings a week will be my main approach. I will also quit coconut oil during this next test phase. I'm thinking of doing 3 TBS of ground flaxseed and Amla powder each day. But perhaps this will skew the dietary aspect of my diet experiment like the RS may have done ?
You are right about my homocysteine being a little high and I love my coffee
I just submitted my 23&me kit two weeks ago so my methylation predisposition will be clearer. Susan amongst others in this forum has really piqued my interest in this. This could be another leg of the stool with inflammation, glycation, and oxidation. You're right about the radiation in the EBT...I'll hold off for now. With my very low sensitive CRP number I'm somewhat assured that there is no real damage going on yet. HDL labs out of Virginia does probably the most extensive test out there. It test something called Myeloperoxidase (MPO) which is a marker for inflammation and oxidative processes specific to the arterial wall and reflects oxidized LDL formation. I'm attaching the results of a friend (APO E 3/3) to highlight all that this test covers. I believe it runs close to $300.00. This was done in 2012 and I think they have added a few more goodies. Thanks again to all the mutual encouragement. I firmly believe we will get to a protocol that covers the key facets of mitigating the adverse affects of our Allelle.You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
APO E3/4
